Harman Kardon SUB-TS11

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[Bericht gewijzigd door william1967 op woensdag 18 februari 2015 11:18:12 (98%)

Of deze 33 Elko's vervangen en wel voor 105° type en 5 IC,
maar dan eerst goede IC-Voeten er in plaatsen.
Dan de 2 powertoren Q501 en Q502 voorzien van een koelplaat, doch wel geïsoleerd houden van elkaar.

Klikbaar voor vergroting.
MVG Gerard.

Hi everybody.

I'm sorry to write in english but I'm french.
I'm having the same troubles than you with my SUB TS11 and this forum is the only one I've found on the web with detailed explainations.

As recommanded by some of you, I've ordered the replacement parts 051-B00012A-E - CLAS D MODULE and 051-A00404B-E - AMP ASSY PCB.

I made the replacement but sadly it had no positive effect. The power led is still amber.
Strangely, I made a second test out of the SUB box (with the power led and speaker unplugged) and when I switched it on, it made click sounds every second like if it tried to power on and then power off continuously.

I made a second try with everything pluged but that time it was still switching on and off with a big "bang" noise (the speaker is connected).

And now, back to the first situation, led amber and no sound.

For your information I kept all the electric insulators and thermal resistor in place.

Could you please help because I don't understand what happens and how to solve it.

Best regards,
Manu

Well I bought a TS-11 where the relay/led wouldn't switch on. I noticed that if the connection cable between the power pcb and the filter pcb was removed the relay would switch on . I found out that transistor Q208 was faulty which caused that behaviour .
I think that if during operation the protection circuitry switches on , Q208 takes care that the auto/hand power on is held permanently in a mute state. This however doesn't seem to work sometimes ??
At the moment I have removed Q208 .
You have renewed the power pcb so I assume the protection circuit is working properly . If that's not working properly you may also get on/off switching . Q208 / U203b takes care that if the protection switches on a mute condition is established . Resetting that condition would occur I think by switching the power off and on again after some time .

Hi Jan_55.

Thanks a lot for your answer.
I'm using Google Translation so it is not perfect but what I understood is that probably the Q208 is dead.
I'll test it and replace it if needed. The good point is that now I've some spare parts so I can easily do it.

I'll tell you if it works.

Thanks

I've just tested Q208 and it's ok.
But I also tested Q206 and Q207. Q206 is ok but Q207 is dead !
So I'll replace it and check again.

Bad analysis... The Q207 was not dead.
I checked it direct on the PCB and once unmounted I retested it and it's ok.
So I guess some other components arround screwed up my measures.

Back to the initial point...

[Bericht gewijzigd door Henry S. op zondag 8 september 2013 13:50:17 (37%)

There's a comment that problems occur due to be bad soldering joints . He checked the joints and resoldered some.
I disconnected the cable between filter en power board and then I heard the relay click . I measured the voltages around U203B point 7 and 5 , 6 ( with the cable disconnected I think ) and point 7 stayed high
( +15 is muted ) . So measure the voltage on pin 7 of U203B .
pin 6 should be on a voltage of about ( 18 / (10+18) )) * 15 Volt .
If Q208 is faulty this voltage may drop .
When I removed Q208 , pin 7 was low , when I switched SW203 to on . And to +15V when SW203 was in auto position without audio input .
I may have used a resistor to ground parallel to R303 to lower the switching off time .
Succes

Hi Jan_55.

Thanks a lot for all your comments ! A really appreciate

I've tried to switch on my sub with the cable between filter and power board disconnected and I heard the relay click only once.
If I do the same with the cable connected, the relay keep on clicking again and again.
So it seems that my problem is not comming from the power board I've replaced but more likely from the filter board.
Now I'm not an electronic expert and I only have a multimeter to make my measures.
Even if the U203 is the faulty one, I will not be able to replace it (or at least, I'm not sure at all).
Do you think I can replace the entire filter board ?

Regards

Well , changing the filter board is easy .
I will measure some voltages in the muted and not muted situation .
Maybe you can find what's wrong . If you connect the filter and power board , the ptc connection must not be connected and then you can measure these values and compare them .
I will post the values later .

measurements , supply + / - 16,3 volt
all measurements ref gnd .
Q208 removed

NOT MUTED MUTED
pin 7 U203B -15 +15
pin 6 U203B 10 10,4
pin 5 U203B 0,4 15,6
e Q207 0,47 15,6
b Q207 1 16,3
c Q206 1 15,5
b Q206 0,7 0,35

With switch SW203 on the circuit is not muted.
With switch SW203 in auto en C300 0 V ( discharge with a resistor on R254 ) the circuit is muted .

I also checked the input connector JK203 , it has a switch in it , but it worked ok .

[Bericht gewijzigd door Henry S. op maandag 9 september 2013 22:22:32 (42%)

Thanks a lot.

I'll try to make the same measures and compare with yours.

Just a question : What is the "PTC" connection ?

Thanks

Op 9 september 2013 21:19:00 schreef garwincbr:
Just a question : What is the "PTC" connection ?

Thanks

There is the PTC, the green Dot.
[Klik]
and with wite therminal-kit
[Klik]

Here the schematic:

[Bericht gewijzigd door Henry S. op maandag 9 september 2013 22:23:02 (18%)

Ah ok !
Thanks a lot Gerard.

Ok,

I've measured these points and I find the same than you.
From a cold start, it switches between "On" and "muted" for few minutes and then it remains on muted position when warm. All the measures proves that it is in muted position.

So what I think is that I probably have a problem with the TH1.

I'll try to measure the TH1 resistance during activity but it's hard because not easy to reach.

[Bericht gewijzigd door Henry S. op dinsdag 10 september 2013 18:55:54 (87%)

Sorry , maybe some misunderstanding . With PTC I meant the ptc connection ( number 6 ) in the connection cable between filter pcb and power pcb .
I don't think you have a problem with Th1 , that's on the powerboard and is part of the protection circuit.
You have a problem with the auto / manual power on circuit ( muting circuit ). If you put the switch sw203 in the on position , this ciruit must switch to the non muted state .
The switch controls de optocoupler U1 , and U1 the base of Q206.
I measured 0,7 V when U1 is on ( not muted) en 0,35 V when U1 is off ( muted) .

Ah ok ! Sounds clearer now. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I'm at work now so I'll test that tonight.

Just a question :
What is the purpose of the PTC line and how did you disconnect it ?

Thanks

Well , the loudspeaker relay is on one side conected to +V and the other side is connected to the protection circuit and is labeled ptc in the connections to the filter board and connected to b Q208 .
I assume that when the protection cuts in , the relay is deenergized
and Q208 overrides the not muted condition to muted .
I assume that this condition must stay also if the protection no longer signals a fault condition .
I think that when the protection circuit measures over current / dc voltage / high temperature ,it cuts in , the relay is deenergized and the power on switch is overruled and switched to the muted condition .
On my board the output of U203B pin 7 stayed at + 15 . When I removed
Q208 pin 7 would go from +15 to - 15 when sw203 was put in the on position. I remember that the voltage at pin 6 was not at 10 V .

Hi.

Sorry for my delayed answer. Too much work...

Initial situation : system muted.
I tested U1 signal and it is at 0V on pin 3.
When shunt pin 3 and 4 of U1, I get the relay swith from muted to not muted, but again it enters in the same loop (muted / not muted).

I give up. I'll bring my sub to be repared by a professional. It exceed my competencies.

Again, I would like to thank you for all the time you spent on my problem.

I'll let you know which part of the circuit was causing my issue.

Best regards

OK Good luck . With U1 I'm not sure which part you mean.
When the base voltage of Q206 goes from 0,35 to 0,7 V , the system goes from muted to not muted.
But Q208 can override this or if Q208 is faulty. The voltage at R262 ( = pin 6 ) should be at 10 V for no override .

Beste allen,

Ik heb met plezier en veel aandacht de oplossingen, tips en tops gelezen. Ik heb exact hetzelfde probleem. Mijn HKTS11BQ sub gaf dezelfde geluiden en heb hem voor diagnose naar CE-repair gestuurd. Diagnose: Het voedingscirsuit, de eindtrap en de voorversterking moeten hersteld worden. Hierop heb ik conform het advies wat ik hier las de onderdelen:
- 051-B00012A-E - CLAS D MODULE (*VERVANGER*)
- 051-A00404B-E - PCB AMP ASSY
besteld en de oude vervangen. Echter het probleem blijft bestaan. Ik zou graag willen weten waarom. Heb ik ergens een fout gemaakt? Moet ik nog een onderdeel vervangen? Wat adviseren jullie mij? Alvast bedankt.

Ze geven aan dat er 3 zaken hersteld moeten worden.
Die zitten op drie verschillende printen schat ik :
class D module is 051-B00012A-E ( blz 28 service manual ) .
pcb amp assy 051-A00404B-E dit is de voeding + ingangsbegrenzing + beveiliging ( blz 27).
pre amp pcb 051-A05276A-E dit is het subwooferfilter + auto power on ( blz 26 ) .
Maar check die nummers bij de leverancier .

Helemaal duidelijk Jan_55, dank voor je snelle respons en advies. Ik heb contact gezocht bij CE-Repair. Zij adviseren printplaat
051-A05072A-E ook te vervangen. Dit wijkt wel af van jouw advies Pre amp PCB 051-A05276A-E. Welke printplaat moet ik dan bestellen en vervangen?

Jan_55, bedoel je deze plaat?:
051-A05276A-E PRE AMP PCB (EUP) Aantal: € 25.01

[Bericht gewijzigd door Henry S. op maandag 16 september 2013 18:30:04 (13%)

Sorry , ik kan dat niet zien . In het manual staat alleen bij de class D module een onderdeel nummer . Op de website van ce staan 4 printen , welke nummer dan precies is van de filter / power on print kan ik niet zien , ik ging uit van de nummers die mij waarschijnlijk leken met de raad om dat te checken .

Hallo,
Ook ik heb zo'n HK SUB-TS11 met hetzelfde probleem.
Wat ik gedaan heb is het volgende: ik heb met de scoop op de collector van Q114 gemeten en zag dat de spanning langzaam naar nul liep om daarna gelijk weer naar 64V te gaan. Op de basis van de Q114 en de emmitter van Q115 zag ik geen spannings variatie. Daarna heb ik Q114 vervangen en het motorboten effect was verdwenen maar..... in rust (dus zonder aansturing) was hij zeer onrustig (allerlei bijgeluiden).
Ik heb toen C251 en C253 van 10uF vervangen door 100uF omdat de voedingsspanning niet rustig was. Tevens heb ik koelplaten gemonteerd aan Q501 en Q502. Het resultaat is een geruisloze box.
Hopelijk hebben jullie hier wat aan.
Groeten
Ben

Geruisloze box?
Er hoort toch muziek uit te komen?

Sorry, kon het niet laten...

Hoi,
Is ruis muziek dan???

Hier heb je een mooi voorbeeld van ruis Klik
Veel luister en kijk plezier.
MVG Gerard.

Hallo,

Wie kan mijn helpen.
Ik heb een breuk in mijn net snoer van de sub woofer harmon kardon ts 11. Heb alles schroeven aan de achterkant van de plaats los alleen de slagplug (ronde kop) krijg ik niet los. Heeft iemand een tip hoe dit moet/kan?

Hoor graag